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Catching Up with Carmen: Oakland’s Premier Indie by Doniphan Blair
Carmen Madden in her new West Oakland digs, a poster for her first film, 'Everyday Black Man', on the wall. photo: D. Blair
CineSource has been following Carmen Madden since our first Oakland Issue in 2009 when she was about to release her freshman film, "Everyday Black Man", see article. Very dramatic and well made, it concerns a man trying to function in the face of severe head winds like aggressive Black Muslims, violent drug dealers and his own history.
A talented writer who published early, Madden emerged out of family life, raising her sons and running her family's business, to become one of Oakland's preeminent indies. She also coached actors and models. Making "Everyday Black Man", doing the festival circuit and searching for distribution, which she finally got, became an object lesson in how to bootstrap oneself into the upper echelons of film.
Now she is trying to notch up for her sophomore outing, "Shadow Fighter". It was supposed to shoot last summer but ran into complications but, hopefully, it will go into production this year.
To top it off, she recently moved her professional office from downtown to West Oakland, west West Oakland, flush against the freeway, in fact. Always happy to chat with the bubbly, modest and self-effacing Madden, I headed over. The sun was slanting over the 'hood and a rich jazz was playing as I headed up her steps.
CineSource: Why did you decide to set up in West Oakland?
Carmen Madden: It gives me a professional front. It was a space that was in family. The neighboring lots are owned by Caltrans so it is possible I could buy it from them and set up a full studio.
Literally, put in a sound stage!?!
Yes, because no one wants these lots. I might just take over the whole block [laughs].
I know a West African filmmaker, Akendo, who is across the street and some other filmmakers who are across from him. So this could be the West Oakland filmmakers—
Madden dreams of buying the neighboring lot and building a sound stage. photo: D. Blair
Hangout. Yes.
So how is your project ['Shadow Fight']?
I think it is about to take a turn for the better. I was so blown away [when it fell apart a week before shooting was to start in 2011]. It took me a while to get my feet back on the ground.
Weird shady stuff?
Just the usual, the distributor didn't come through. Over a certain amount of money, it would have had to go through different channels. This particular agent wanted particular actors which raised the budget.
What was that break line, a million?
Are you kidding? No, way. They would give a million for a black film? For a black film, it is like $200,000.
But $200,000 is the absolute lowest it is humanly physically possible to shoot a film.
Thank you, thank you. And how were we going to get the stars they want for that?
Who did they want?
They liked who I liked. We just didn't see eye-to-eye on the film. I don't even know what the name of the [genre] of what type of film they wanted. 'Shadow Fight' was not a black comedy nor a religious Tyler Perry-type film. It is not even necessarily a quote unquote black film. It's a film. It seemed we were making two different films.
We had a great group, [including] Blair Underwood, but it fell apart because of the money. The actors were due to come out the next week [for the shoot of 'Shadow Fighter' in the summer of 2011], but I had to stop once it became clear the money was not coming.
Surprisingly camera-shy, Madden has both an easy laugh and a penetrating analysis of the film business, black culture, raising boys and more. photo: D. Blair
Now we are back with an investor board and we'll be fine. I just went through a period of doubt—you know how it is when a project derails? Now I am, 'OK, it'll be fine.' I have a budget that is closer to 850, which is reasonable, if a bit low. Blair still wants to do it.
As it stands now we are still waiting but as soon as we get the money we are back in business. I want to say summer but that could be pushing it. But we can't go til all the money is in.
You say it is not a black film; so it is not like 'Everyday Black Man'?
Well, the main characters are black—there is some Asians in there—but it is not just for blacks.
Your last film—
Was not just for blacks either.
But it was pretty hard hitting as far as not pandering to a black political perspective.
This one is the same.
So that is kind of your genre, difficult black issues dealt with artistically?
I like to deal with everyday people and just try to figure out their American dream. [The new film] is about a guy, a boxer, who gets into jail early, a young guy, but he already has a kid—not unusual.
He goes in for murder and is in jail for a while. When he gets out, the main [question] is: Will he reconnect with his family? Although still young, he is senior now in the boxing world [but] his family doesn't want him, his kid hates him—his kid is also boxing now. He finds himself displaced.
Is there any where you are drawing this from? The previous one was slightly inspired by local issues [the mafia around Oakland's Black Muslim Bakery]
Just getting to know the West Oakland filmmakers, of which there are quite a few, Madden hopes to start a film night. photo: D. Blair
This one is not so much. I took it from watching. I watched fathers try to reconnect with their sons, especially, and how hard that is.
I raised my kids by myself. If anything, it is from that. At the time [I wrote it], I was going through a horrible time with my oldest son. You know that whole 'I am a guy but I am not really a man and you are supposed to be the little woman—[laughs]—but I also need you.'
I sort of took that, made it somewhat bigger and used a male figure instead of a woman. I describe it as [the story of] an ex-boxer who has to fight his own son in the ring to prove his worth.
Literally in the story—
He fights his son.
There is a little of that in 'Everyday Black Man.'
Right.
In that film, he didn't reveal himself to his daughter. He wanted to wait until he fully proved himself—
Which there was no time for.
'Everyday Black Man' got distributed?
The distributer is E1. Now it is on BET. I got some revenue, it will take a while but it is doing well. It ran on Showtime—it can still run on Showime. Still getting picked up. Doing pretty good, they were pretty pleased with its [performance].
And they were the ones who were going to do the second [feature]?
That has fallen apart, although they are still looking at first rights. As far as them producing, that is over. Although, I am sure I could ask them, once I have a certain amount of money, to pitch in $150,000.
A lot of people will do that at the end, once they know others have come onboard. They don't want to be fully exposed.
Right. In this case, [E1] knew were going to be fully exposed. What can I say? No hard feelings. You learn and it will work out for the best.
Previously you were mentioning the bankable black films, comedies and religious [redemptive], is that about it?
Right, because that is where the money is.
George Lucas couldn't even get funding for 'Red Tails' [2012] because it was a black film, are you amazed at that?
No, I am more amazed how much money he did spend.
$53 million but there are a lot of sets. Have you seen it?
Madden can seem retiring and solicitous—until you get her on one of her subjects and the steely glint emerges. photo: D. Blair
No. They reshot a lot and I didn't hear good things about the script. I worry about that. I am glad it got made, it is good for black actors. It's an amazing story.
I wasn't surprised [that Lucas didn't get financing], again, there is no market we fall in. What upsets me is that even black distributors don't push that [barrier] of just comedy and religion—what we are known for. They want you stay in line. For those of us that don't, that can be a problem.
Let's face it, not all black comedies are that funny. The relationship comedies are all the same—not very interesting to me—and the religious ones are also pretty much the same, I call them Cinderella Stories. It is a big money business...
Tyler Perry is quite a phenomena.
I have nothing but respect for Perry. He is a marketing genius.
And when they see that, everyone else says 'Just follow the formula.'
But someone already has that market on that. Even Tyler himself realizes that he has a problem. If he is not making 'Madea' [his main character, which emerged in his first film 'Diary of a Mad Woman', 2005 and has continued in a half a dozen films since] his films don't sell as well. That is a problem for him especially as he tries to branch out.
Well, someone has to get out of the ghetto, as it were. Samuel Jackson or someone who is a big star who can afford to experiment a bit.
Right. It is going to take some star power but also some different ideas.
Is there any in Oakland or Bay Area stirrings of that. There was 'Medicine for Melancholy' [2008].
By Barry [Jenkins], I haven't talked to him in a while.
But there is no black film movement that you know of?
That I know of but I don't hear a lot of things. I would be curious to hear his take. He does his own thing, a whole different thing from me. I am more mainstream.
'Medicine for Melancholy' was in black and white, kind of shooting himself in the foot [with a black audience]?
[laughs] Exactly, black and white and I don't know how story-based it was.
It was pretty good and he did get a great actor, Wyatt Cenac [now famous for his work on Jon Stewart's 'Daily Show'], up from LA.
That was good, you have to do that.
So there isn't the acting pool here?
There might be some [local actors] but I think your best bet is to and get a couple [from Hollywood] if you can for distribution purpose. You are going to need them, for [the film] to move.
The writing and the shooting can all be done slowly and laboriously but quality acting can not be cheated. You can't just get your friends in and say 'Try and be charismatic.'
No, no. [laughs] That is not going to fly. That is a waste of money. Now some people will say that is not a waste on money because we can get it free but it is a waste of money in terms of the film because where is that film going: nowhere.
So that is your number one investment?
It is.
You can write it yourself, you can even shoot it yourself, just tie it off on a tripod and have slightly stiff shots but you have that charismatic actor—
And it has got to have a good story. There is nothing worse then actors working really hard. I feel sorry for them when they have to work that hard on a bad script.
Is there any trick to getting good black actors in LA, a certain agent?
I was really lucky [on 'Shadow Fight']. Partly because the script [by Madden] was really good. That is really what it is, the script. People just wanted to do the film. My casting director said 'You must have angels on your side,' because we had these actors that just wanted to do it. I wish we had angels on the money side [laughs].
Basically this casting director, Aisha Coley, she specializes in all film but she does black films—she is black. She basically walked me through the process. With 'Everyday Black Man', I just got on the phone and was calling people—I was the casting director.
You met your star [for 'Everyday Black Man', Henry Brown] at a reading in Santa Barbara.
Right, I was not prepared for the process. But ['Shadow Fight'], she walked me through it and made sure there was a method. And the [actors] do like to have a casting director they know and respect, that means a lot for their agents. They feel they have been presented to well, that letter of introduction is everything , that seems to be the key. I didn't know before so I learned.
The casting director essential. They make the actor know they are in good hands, it is a pro operation, since the actor is so important—
I have a new appreciation for them and if you listen to them, they can help you figure out what you need to offer the actors. I was not aware of certain things, and I missed out on one actor because I said 'Why do I have to pay them that money, aren't they normal SAG stock?' But I think I could have gotten who I wanted if I just paid a little more.
Is there anyone else you are getting good coaching from?
Um, I think it is mostly from her. She did a lot Ava DuVernay's film 'Middle of Nowhere'. she used Omari Hardwick and won the best director at Sundance. Aisha does a lot of top films. She is a good resource person. We looked at a lot of actors, just in interviewing and casting, I learned a lot from her.
Did you look at a thousand heads shots?
We didn't look at a thousand but we looked a lot, a lot of guys. We were trying to get a particular guy for the son, which was a hard mix. He is 20 and he can't look like someone you can beat up. He has to look like he has something, plus he has to be able to act!
But I was pleased. This film was an interesting mix of learning different parts of the business, how to cater to the agents, deal with these different people, let my lawyer handle more things, so I am not so involved.
Is your lawyer a media lawyer?
Yes, Richard Lee, he is here in Oakland.
I believe you said you are going to keep your crew from last time.
Uh, no, everything sort of blew up, so we have a change, I am not using the same cinematographer, I am using Mickey Freeman [a known cinematographer who has worked a lot with Rob Nilsson]. We shall see when we restart again if we can fit his schedule.
The thing that happened with the cinematographer was one of those things. It is like the distributor saying 'We want a black cinematographer.' I don't think we need a black cinematographer. There are plenty of people that can shoot black people. Yes I wanted a more mixed crew then the last film but the [producers] wanted different things.
Are you going to shoot on the Red?
I don't have time to think about that now, I will once the new cinematographer comes on board. Things change, things change [after production fell apart in 2011].
People perceived that 'Shadow Fight' was going to be big which I am not argiung with them but we are still just a little film from Oakland, we are not huge yet. It might be huge but the money was not there and a lot of people were expecting that this was going to be their pay dirt.
The crew was looking for points? Getting greedy?
Yes, basically.
Mickey [Freeman] has been around a lot of low budget films.
Yes, Mickey was here and we talked and we would have worked fine together. Yes, he had a lot fo information and more learning for me, he has been around the block. He liked the script. For sound we are still using Peter Sharpe, he is great guy.
Do you have an assistant producer?
I do a lot of that stuff.
You don't have a daughter, sister...
I do have sons but that is not happening.
How about interns, I think the Academy of Art would be happy to send—
They will be sending. I met Diane Baker and they did call for some interns and Karen Dea is still a part of my crew.
And how bout the Oakland film commission?
I am at a loss with out Amy [Zins]. I really wanted to get this done when Amy was still there [which she was in the summer of 2011]. When you talk to Amy that is just a wealth of information. We had everything set up.
This time we were having to use [actor] trailers, because the actors have to have all kinds of stuff. We didn't do any of that in 'Everyday Black Man'. Amy was helping us figure this all out, telling us what to do, so I will probably be calling her on the side. because I can't imagine the person at the film commission is that great. We will Amy a producer credit, if she is available.
You have a boxing club?
We are looking at a boxing gym, I work out a boxing gym, Kings, we were looking at trainers cause the actors have to get trained but we were still looking a boxing clubs we havent really narrowed it down.
Here in Oakland?
Yes, everything is in Oakland.
As far as funding is there anywhere in particular you are looking?
I am still doing the investor [circuit]. I am looking at on-line stuff, the hedge funds and then there is private people I have been meeting.
Any local Oakland people?
No. Not a one.
How about Kickstarter?
No, because we are an LLC and there are certain things we can't do, certain online stuff, those types of things I am not allowwed to do which is fine cause I thinkthose things work well for smaller films, smaller amounts of money but when you are looking at 850 to a million range that is not happening. It is not a start up.
How about Europe?
I haven't ventured there yet but that is a possibility, we will see. It depends on where they want us to shoot, the locations become tricky, but I am not knocking it.
It seems to me the black French story is not quite as iconographic as the black Oakland story. Perhaps there is a producer there who wants to come here?
Although I would love to hang out there, I love Paris.
David Lynch had to go to the French for his last film ['Mulholland Drive', 2001].
And I might too. But I know this sounds weird and normally money would be my biggest hang up but I really think the biggest obstacle off the ground again has been me and my attitude. the willingness to do it, but now that I am like 'OK, yeah, we are doing it.' I am not that worried about it anymore [laughs].