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The Women of IndieFest by Doniphan Blair
Holly Roach (left) handles narrative submissions and Fay Dearborn does the docs at SF IndieFest. photo: D. Blair
Started by Jeff Ross in 1998, SF IndieFest has grown from its edgy beginnings—playing really freaky shit—into San Francisco's homegrown hometown festival—still playing very aggressive fare, of course. Some early programmers included Anita Monga, who went on to acclaim at the San Francisco International and by founding the San Francisco Silent Film Festival.
The IndieFest team also does DocFest, the Another Hole in the Head Festival, and Winter MusicFest, which runs alongside IndieFest—this year, they will present 50 bands as well 85 films. As if that were not enough, last year they started collaborating with the Burning Man people on the Black Rock Festival, with shorts like "Spark" by Bridget Palardy, about a future where fire is banned (omigod!).
Although IndieFest has branched out to the Lumiere, the Victoria, and the Castro, it has now returned almost entirely to its home base: The Roxie in the heart of the Mission on 16th Street. Just over a hundred years old and San Francisco's oldest continuously operating screen, the Roxie went through one tough patch, and was sold to New College in 2005 (upon which it become a non-profit), and another, when college itself closed in 2008.
But the theater was acquired last year by the dynamic entrepreneurial duo of Chris and Kate Statton, who have retained the non-prof structure. With IndieFest and all its subsidiary festivals in the house, it seems on track to continue serving us cutting edge cinema for another hundred years.
Most of the IndieFest team (left to right): MusicFest booker Peps X. Hes, doc programmer Fay Dearborn, founder Jeff Ross, holding the new program guide, and narrative booker Holly Roach. photo: D. Blair
True to form, SF IndieFest will be "more bizarre and eclectic then ever—and with more parties," according to founder Ross. Some shows are sure to shock, he says. His top three in that category are: "We Are What We Are," the debut film by Mexican Jorge Michael Grau, which concerns cannibalism in a destitute Mexican City family; "Worst in Show," by American Don Lewis, about ugly dogs, which will test the taste of even the most Mission audience member; and "Trashmaster," by Mathieu Weschler from France (90 min), which uses "machinima," real-time graphics-rendering from a game, to generate computer animated scenes.
When I sat down for a breakfast interview with Holly Roach, who is responsible for indie features, and Fay Dearborn (truth be told, Fay had a mimosa) who programs the docs. We started this new wave of docs:
Fay Dearborn: Machinima is a coming thing. In 'Trashmaster,' they use footage entirely from 'Grand Theft Auto.' That sounds very exciting to me. It's a cinema mash-up, basically. 'Second Bodies,' [Sandra Danilovic, 46 min, Canada] the featurette [we are showing], uses some scenes from 'Second Life' [the game]. They are narrative—these people are living on 'Second Life' and acting out these roles— but it is documentary. It is to the 'Trashmaster' what documentary is to narrative feature.
CineSource: No real people, all screenshots?
FD: In the 'Trashmaster,' it is screen shots, footage edited together to make a coherent film. 'Second Bodies' uses some machinima intercut with traditional interviews with users of 'Second Life' to discuss the cultural implications of avatars [the players screen icon or character], especially for women gamers. The realization by these gamers, including the filmmaker herself, is that what might have started as a fantasy role-playing has made them confront issues about their own identity.
The scenics and camera work are excellent but the humans in 'Trashmaster,' a French film cut entirely from Grand Theft Auto IV screenshots—so-called 'machinima'—leave a lot to be desired. photo courtesy: Grand Theft Auto/M. Weschler
If you think your online identity should be this sexy cat character, do you have second thoughts about that when people relate to you a different way? Should you be more, quote unquote, honest about your avatar? Should you make your avatar look like yourself?
On the other hand, isn't the avatar about fantasy?
FD: Exactly, so these are some issues that people who are gaming right now deal with. They have moved beyond the initial fantasy aspect and [they] have to come to terms with it. Especially people who use 'Second Life' a lot.
Is this the first time you have seen so much machinima?
FD: Definitely, I hadn't heard of it before this year, [which] is not surprising since I am not a gamer. It may have been around for a couple of years. In this age of people doing mash-ups—music, film, YouTube—I think it is a cool thing. We will probably see more of it.
Especially with gaming taking over from film. Now they are now talking to each other.
FD: There is another film about avatars that played recently, it was called, ah—
Holly Roach: 'Life 2.0' [by Jason Spingarn-Koff, 2010]. It is about people playing 'Second Life.' I do think this idea of story telling within 'Second Life,' taking it from the small personal space of your computer screen into the cinema, is an interesting phenomena happening now.
FD: That is what I try to do as a programmer for IndieFest because our audiences are so sophisticated—way ahead of me most of the time. I will see something about an artist or musician [or in this case machima] I hadn't been aware of—but I thought the film was interesting—and there will be people lined up. They have already heard of this person and they can't wait to see the documentary. You have to be one step ahead. You can't just have a documentary about, say 'Second Life,' because that is old news. You want to talk about the political-cultural-identity politics of it, as shown in 'Second Bodies.'
Holly Roach, who books narrative features for SF IndieFest, is enthused by what she is seeing, although submissions from local filmmakers are low. photo: D. Blair
HR: Right. To me what is interesting about this subject is the alternative uses for gaming footage and storytelling. It is crossing all three areas. We have had documentaries about it. There is a narrative feature called 'R U There,' [David Verbeek, 90 min, Tawain/Netherlands] that sort of deals with the idea of gaming, the idea that an identity in 'Second Life' is more vulnerable and real then you are in real life.
Then we also have the 'Trashmaster.' It is crossing all the genres , using that footage to explore issues of human interaction. And then going from that the next step might be 'The Singularity,' [Anthony Waller, Toshi Hoo, Ray Kurzweil, 79 min] which I have seen. I think Jeff booked it. [See CS articles, 'The Singularity is Intensely Near' and 'Ehren Koepf: Man on a Mission']
What Jeff cheated!?! [As the director of SF IndieFest, Ross generally doesn't book films.]
HR: I know! ['The Singularity'] is kind of a hybrid. Have you seen it?
FD: No. [But] Jeff has this way of swanning in and booking something none of us have the courage to book. He loves that weird stuff that is going to bring out the kooks and make for a really interesting Question and Answer.
HR: He is fearless about that.
'The Singularity' is that radical?
HR: It is kind of hybrid between a documentary, narrative and a little autobiographical. Ray Kurzweil [the renown futurist and author], his thoughts are told through a fictional narrative which involves a woman who is an artificial intelligence. It goes through a court battle—almost like a civil rights battle—her trying to prove that she is real. We feel a lot is science fiction but it is presented in a setting that is: 'Oh my gosh, we really are going to have to begin dealing with these issues.' It is like with your avatar: Where do you stop and your avatar begins?
FD: We had a film at DocFest called 'Plug and Pray,' [Jens Schanze, 2010] which is a really great look at AI and where it is now—especially the spiritual issues surrounding intelligent machines. Does it have a soul? There were some Japanese programmers who actually went to the Vatican. The Vatican said, 'If man is able to create this machine, it must be OK with god.' That was one of the interesting things to come out from the film: there is a nexus of spirituality and technology.
CS: What is your favorite doc this IndieFest?
FD: For the best festival doc experience, check out the double program 'Gold Farmers' and 'Second Bodies.'
Do you think docs are moving towards ever more glitzy and mixed genre?
FD: I think more docs should innovate, utilize unexpected genres—that would be great. Obviously, people have been doing animation and re-enactments in their docs for years. I wouldn't say things are getting more 'glitzty,' however. If anything we are more accepting of rough productions, uneven sound, etc. If [you want] authenticity, docs are where it's at! For the same money, I think indie filmmakers can reach more people with a doc then they can with a scripted narrative.
[Turning to Holly] So, what are we looking at in terms of indie local features?
HR: I doesn't seem that there was a lot of work coming out of San Francisco this year, at least as far as I was concerned. In the last few years, I usually see a certain number. Last year, I did at least two from San Francisco. I don't know what happened. The filmmakers need to get to work. The 'Singularity' has a fictional story, [although] it is more of a documentary.
But not docudrama—that ugly word?
HR: Exactly, a sure fire way to get the snooze on. What I was surprised to see this year was so many international features. We don't always have that kind of presence.
The festival seems to be growing. Last year we did an article about it, which said it was growing in attendance.
FD: I would say most festivals, music festivals, etc., have experienced a drop in the last few years due to the economy. Our attendance has been down slightly. Interestingly enough, it never feels that way, with all the sold out shows.
Movies usually do well.
Fay Dearborn does the doc programming for SF IndieFest but has been there a few years and has a great command of the overall cinema climate. photo: D. Blair
FD: We scaled back. If you show up at Sundance and you have an 8:30 slot, you are psyched, but out here people are barely awake at 8:30 in the morning [laughs]. Even noon was a bit of tough so we had all the programs start at 2:30 this year. That may mean, technically, some of the attendance is down, but that is a number for the publicist.
[IndieFest] has grown in the sense that we now have a bunch of programmers who have different areas of expertise. In previous years, we had your star programmers, Anita Monga and Bruce Fletcher. Those are the kind of people who had a way of shaping the feel of the festival. This year, we have a bunch of programmers who are not above anyone else.
HR: Right.
FD: We all have our different areas, so we end up with a very diverse festival. Every year, we have more parties, more press. I just spoke at our press conference [which was well attended by some sixty people] and before that I went on line to check a film. Already some of our show times—which only just went on line—have been linked to a bunch of different web sites. I thought that was a sign that [IndieFest] has saturated the consciousness of San Francisco.
HR: Absolutely and the filmmaking world. It felt to me submissions were up this year. It felt like the quality of the work was better. The filmmakers I reached out to were all really excited about the festival. [They] had heard really good things about it.
FD: We get really good notices on 'Without A Box' [the one-stop-online-shop for festival submissions].
HR: The filmmakers love to come here. It is a fun casual environment for them. It is great to be in San Francisco.
FD: Never a hard sell.
HR: I have always been amazed at what SF Indie can put on. It really is kind of a whole, with the parties, with 'Love Bites' [a program of romantic music videos from the 80s with subtitled lyrics that people sing along to], the Super Bowl party, the music festival AND the fact that SFIndie does it without any major corporate sponsorship.
FD: There is a beer, Black Star, [and other sponsors] but it is not like Sundance. Obviously, getting a lot of money is great but in the end do you really want to be beholden to those sponsors? What is nice is when a sponsor seeks us out. [Then] we are not in that awkward position of feeling we need to tailor what we do to be 'sponsor worthy.' In a recession, it is a nice place to be. A lot of other festivals have seen sponsorship decline.
Are you guys wedded to the Roxie?
FD: People love the Roxie. It is really perfect for what we do: rowdy, fun, button-pushing kind of films. This is the epicenter of that scene in San Francisco—really central—people can get here so easily. And the Roxie has long history of pushing experimental film.
HR: Yeah, Roxie Releasing [an independent film distributor notably responsible for the 30th anniversary re-release of George A. Romero's 'Night of the Living Dead' although it specializes in documentaries.] It has a long, long history of [experimental film].
FD: The only program [this year] we are not doing at the Roxie is the co-presentation with Peaches Christ at the Victoria.
We wouldn't want to miss out on Peaches Christ [Joshua Grannell, a local drag performer, actor and filmmaker]!
FD: What was really great was when the Roxie added the Little Roxie [theatre, a few doors down, seats 49, while the regular Rox seats 300]. This happened five years ago and that changed things for us. [Now] we have two screens and flexibility in programming, which is really, really great. That means smaller shows can be in intimate venues and you don't have people turned away for more popular things.
You don't ever have any trouble guessing which film [goes where]?
HR: Oh yeah [laughs]!
FD: [laughs] You never know. We have to write a note that is 100 words long for the program guide and you just wonder 'Can I really express how amazing this film is, in this little blurb?' Are people going to get it but—again, the sophistication of San Francisco audiences—they do get it. They will line up and I'm like: 'How did they know this was so great?' But they know.
But sometimes you mis-guess? You put it in the Little Roxie and you get a line around the corner?
FD: Yes, especially when you guys write about something. We got those 'Pink Eiga' [soft core] porn films from Japan a couple years ago. They were written about in the press—we didn't expect to get such great write ups—and people turned out in droves. We were like: 'We'll put the porn in the smaller theater.'
Porn? Come on, you know that is going to sell! So it seems like the Roxie has been saved by these new owners?
FD: You would want to talk to them: Chris and Kate [Statton]. I don't know the back story.
HR: It is a non-profit now and they are more executive directors.
FD: It is nice to have a newly painted lobby, updated stuff—all to the best. The filmmakers are always excited when their film is not playing in an auditorium, or some extra space, like some film festivals, when they get real popcorn with butter—a real theater.
It is also so central to this community which, if you read 'TimeOut' [the New York magazine] is second or third hippest in the United States.
FD: And there is always a show on the sidewalk.
CS: Indeed, I heard Kate on the radio talking about trying to channel that secondary show some how! Backtracking one second: Why do you think there are not that many indie features? I know the docs are big but we had had 'Medicine for Melancholy,' 'Everything Strange and New'...
HR: '(Unititled)' by Jonathon Parker.
Right. It is still one of the most popular flicks on the Netflix cue of what people are watching in Oakland. Why do you think there is not more of them?
HR: I don't know—I am not really much of a producer, I don't have an expertise in that area—why there wouldn't be more narrative work going on in the Bay Area.
FD: I used to work in film in Boston. I feel like—when there isn't a critical mass of filmmaking—it becomes very hard. If you are not doing something like Mumblecore [out of Austin, Texas], where you are just casting your friends and doing it run-and-gun, you need to find talented crew members, set designers, etcetera. Those midrange films, that are going to be on the Netflix top ten for Oakland, you need to be up there a bit in production values. If all those talented crew members move to LA—because that is where the work is—you are going to have a hard time making a film in San Francisco.
HR: I have heard of some films that are in production and being finished right now. Some people will plan their production schedules based on Sundance's deadline or South by South West. It may just be we got stuck in the middle this year. This is the first year I have seen with no local features
FD: With more and more of the big name festivals insisting on premiers, it makes it very difficult for the filmmakers to show a film in their hometown. They feel like: 'Gee, if we show this film in San Francisco, it'll put us out of the running to have our film in Tribeca.'
HR: Particularly, South by South West. Being position where we are—coming right after Sundance and right before South by South West—I think filmmakers, even local filmmakers, want to wait for the dust to settle after Sundance before making their choice where to go next. South by South West has really strict premiere requirements.
[But] I think it is OK since we have a particularly strong identity. That is not who we are. We are about celebrating film and having fun—kind of casual and laid back.
But if you have the opportunities for these festivals that get national publicity—international publicity—people prioritize that. The other side of that, you can get lost in the shuffle in those festivals, where you could be the shining star of this festival.
Which seems to be inspiring the international submissions: Get a toe-hold in America, maybe win a prize, move on from there.
HR: Exactly. To have the US premier of 'Je T'Aime I Love You Terminal' [Dani Menkin, 85 min, Israel]—I think it is a great thing for them. We have seen several international films to go on to other festivals in the United States and go on to get theatrical releases in their home countries.
FD: For developing the market, I do think the SF IndieFest does end up being a great springboard for a lot of smaller indies. For a while, Lost Weekend Video [the famous Mission store] had a little sticker on all the films that had played SF IndieFest. It was amazing because, when we put that schedule together, it didn't seem like those films had such a high profile at all.
We are definitely not a market festival. If you come and see a film here you know it is not the type of film you will necessarily get to see somewhere else. If you go to see South by South West, almost all those films will get a distributor, will be widely available—where is the fun in that? If you are a filmmaker, or a film go-er, it is way more fun to see a smartly curated group of films that may or may not ever get seen again. That is the real festival experience.
But a lot of filmmakers feel 'Oooh, I would really like to pay back my investors and my investors are asking me to apply to Sundance or South by South West.' In order to do that, they need to preserve their premiere status. A lot of filmmakers are feeling beholden to the people who gave them money. It's a shame.
HR: Yes, it is a shame and [I hear it] in conversations every year. You get stuck between a producer and a director who really wants to come here, because they love the festival and they heard from other filmmakers what a great festival it is. But then, yeah, they get beholden to what the producer's strategy is.
That is tough, where to open, it is kind of a Russian Roulette.
FD: Yeah, if they sit out a full year, then their film is outdated. The festival in their home town says 'Yeah, we got new stuff this year.' It is a tough game.
HR: It really is. We get so many submissions and sometimes you have to pick out this arbitrary criteria to narrow it down. This is over a year old and that becomes the criteria because the reality is: We don't have room for everything.
FD: Well, a lot of programming is so arbitrary, I mean it is sort of like college applications. A lot of colleges will look to make a good incoming class. Each film works off the other films—What are the themes?—that sort of thing. There is a sort of mini-zeitgeist that appears every year when we build the program. What really appeals one year may not appeal the next. There is no real rhyme or reason for it.
So you are just trying to throw a football in front of 'no rhyme or reason?'
FD: In a way. Usually something just grabs me and I'm not sure why. I could probably come-up with a lot of reasons why one film is better then another but—come on!—it is art. It is very subjective. So lots of times I am thinking, 'I really love this film,' and I am betting others will too. And that is the really amazing thing about programming: When you put something in the program—and I am sure you [Holly] would agree, and people are lining up to see it and you are thinking—
HR: That works.
FD: That really worked—something really great about that!
But how 'bout the reverse: It is kind of a dog but you threw it in there and it got results.
FD: [laughs] This is kind of tough. Jeff always says—he trusts us a lot as programmers—'If people only see one film at IndieFest is this the film you want them to see?' That is like a really great way to make decisions.
Sometimes you think, 'Alright, this is really weird. I am going to push some buttons with this.' That is great. Some people go in and they are like: 'That was too weird for me!' They walk out in the middle. For a bunch of years, we had a lot of people who were flabbergasted by stuff—they either loved it or hated it.
You remember off hand any titles?
FD: If you just look at five years ago some of the Japanese stuff, there was 'tentacle porn,' stuff that was kind of offensive.
HR: It is like you were saying: Our audience is really savvy. Jeff always says that to me too: 'If they only see one film...' My internal guideline is: If I paid $11.00 to see this, how would I feel? You want to come out feeling something and if you are pushing the envelope and pushing buttons and people hate it? Well, I don't know: Hate is an emotion. At least they didn't feel nothing.
FD: Right
HR: Sometimes it is hard predict what is going to draw the masses and what is going to have more of a niche audience. But I am OK with those niche audience things. You are providing opportunity for this small group of people to see this film that otherwise they would not have an opportunity to see. Again having a savvy audience, with so many interests, on the cutting edge in so many different areas—to be able to show that group, even if it isn't a big group, [a certain film], I still think it is rewarding. [It is] what this festival is about.
FD: But there is sometime when you program something really great and the word doesn't get out there—
HR: Yeah, for whatever reason, it is a great film with great performances, and you are totally in love with it—
FD: And you get 20 people!
HR: What I always feel this time of year, when you are doing all the work, you just want to be done [with it]. But then press conferences start and you see it all as whole, and you get excited again.
FD: [Like] the program guide. I always say, 'This looks so great!' The filmmakers too [say stuff like that]. That is really the most flattering thing, when the filmmakers come to the festival and go to see a lot of the other films. That is—to me—a really great sign.
What we do at this is give attending filmmakers a full festival pass. They can go for free with a guest to any film. They are encouraged to see any of their fellow filmmakers. So, when we put together a program that the other filmmakers like, that is really flattering.
HR: They meet each other.
Does the festival put up attending filmmakers?
FD: The Phoenix Hotel is our awesome hotel sponsor. They've given us free rooms and been good to our visiting filmmakers for years—love them!
And with that, I had to race off to feed my meter, Holly to another meeting, and Fay back into the Roxie to catch the end of the press preview of the opening night feature, "Kaboom," a sex-drenched horror-comedy by famed queer cineaste Gregg Araki—a classic SF IndieFest offering.